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Author Topic: Who are the real predators out there?  (Read 1367 times)
Mo Cheng
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« on: August 25, 2008, 01:14:26 PM »

This subject has been on my mind for a while now, and today I have the time to show you guys a few things about calculating numbers. Because of the "predatory" payday loan movement, we have a mass majority out there who think payday loans are built to prey on the poor. The truth however, is payday loan companies PROFIT off the predatory charges of banks. In this post, id like to show you the TRUE meaning of predatory lending, and how banks generate majority of their revenues.

First - Lets examine the APR formula from a payday lending perspective:

APR = (charge/term) * 365

What this formula does is basically break down the APR component to a daily figure, and then multiply it out to the year long figure for the APR calculation. Please note - this isn't an amortization formula (that's a lot more complicated). By using this example we can calculate a simple example:

Principle: 100
Interest: 20 dollars per hundred
Term: bi weekly

APR = (20/14) * 356 = 521%

We all know these are pretty static numbers inside the industry. I would even venture to say these interest rates are a little high. Majority of your states have regulated payday loan charges to around the realms of 15 dollars per hundred. There's only a handful of states out there that are unregulated and charge 20 dollars per hundred.

Anyways.

Lets take a look at an NSF/overdraft banking scenario. Through my years of working with payday loans and its customers, ive learned that MAJORITY of our customers come to us to avoid overdraft charges. Because overdraft charges tend to be charged on a per transaction basis, here is an example of what a typical customer would see if they overdraft 100 dollars from their bank.

Amount           Charge           Balance
        20           0                   0
        15           35                 -50
        40           35                 -125
        30           35                 -190
        15           35                 -240

Totals:
Overdraft Amount: 100
NSF/Overdraft Charges: 140
Balance: -240

This is a REALISTIC example. I used to get customers who would overdraft 5 - 10 times on a single 100 dollar balance. Customers come to payday lenders because they're figuring out that they are actually SAVING money with our loans. What would you rather pay to loan out a hundred dollars? 140 or 20? Its also safe to say that majority of the time, banks get their money bank in LESS than 2 weeks. A lot of banks charge a daily fee if your bank account is in the negative. With all that to think about, lets be CONSERVATIVE and say the bank gets their money back on the next paycheck, and lets forget about that daily negative balance charge. Here is what the APR formula would look like:

APR = (140/14) * 356 = 3650%

3650%!! And this is leaving out some HEAVY factors (the shorter term, the daily negative balance charges). If we calculate those figures in, we'd be looking at a figure somewhere closer to 10000%. Ladies and gentlemen, it is time to understand that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between the interest we charge, and the "overdraft charge" that banks send out to our customers. At the end of the day, both scenarios are exactly the same: interest on money loaned.

The only difference is the price. 521% APR or 3650% APR? Banks boast that their interest rates are around 8% APR, but do our customers have access to them? Show me a bank that will hand out a loan at 8% APR to someone who has a credit score in the 400 - 500's and ill show you Santa Claus. It won't happen because its simply not profitable. The reality is banks boast about their 8% APR loan which are made ONLY available the rich (with perfect credit score), while secretly charging the middle to lower class customers more than 2000% on small loans.

The fact is majority of society is in the middle class to lower class income bracket. Banks don't make nearly as much in lending to the rich - APRs are low, because the probability of them paying back the bank is mostly guaranteed. Banks make MAJORITY of their money from NSF/Overdraft charges. In a society which lives mostly from paycheck to paycheck it is almost a sure thing that everyone will overdraft their bank accounts once or twice a year at minimum. But that is a whole other subject. If you want to read more about that, my friend Jerry wrote a great article a few weeks back: Why Banks Hate Payday Loans

« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 01:18:31 PM by Mo Cheng » Logged

Mo Cheng@Synaptic Database
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 04:44:18 PM »

GREAT POST.

THIS IS SERIOUSLY SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO COMMUNICATE TO ALL MY CUSTOMERS AND COLLEAUGES OUTSIDE OF THE INDUSTRY. LOVE EVERY BIT OF IT.
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Mo Cheng
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 04:56:22 PM »

I know. its something ive been trying to communicate to people outside of the cash advance industry. All they ever see is the "payday loaning is legal loan sharking" on the mass media - its ridiculous. Since when did mass media turn into new religion anyways? What happened with thinking for yourself and formulating your own opinions. Its funny because all patrons of the payday loan movement think they know something about our services.

The fact is they know JACK. They're pushing for a movement of which they have no clue what the actual intent of is.
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Mo Cheng@Synaptic Database
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Jones_Finance
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 05:04:52 PM »

YEAH.

I HAVE THIS ONE LADY I USED TO LEND TO OUT IN WASHINGTON BACK WHEN I FIRST GOT INTO THE PAYDAY LOAN INDUSTRY. SHE USED TO COME IN ALL PROUD OF THE FACT THAT SHE PARTICIPATED IN THE PAYDAY LOAN LEGISLATIVE MOVEMENT IN WASHINGTON.

HAHA

LITTLE DID SHE KNOW HER MOVEMENT WASN'T GIVING HER LOWER INTEREST RATES, IT WAS ACTUALLY DISOLVING SERVICE SHE USED FREQUENTLY.
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175-H N. Daleville Ave.
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JTaylor
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2008, 12:29:00 PM »

i really like this arguement. think ill use it sometime in a debate! Smiley
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autumn
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 01:01:48 AM »

jtaylor wants to debate on these? on what grounds? it could be pure technical and who will benefit in the end?
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More info about Va Loan Interest Rates at http://www.vamortgagehelp.com/
Mo Cheng
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 01:51:13 PM »

Who will benefit? First off if the payday industry disappears in the next day, the people who will benefit will be the ones sitting in the leather chairs of bank offices. NSF fees are way higher than payday lending fees ever will be.
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Mo Cheng@Synaptic Database
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Payday Loan Software | Payday Loan Blog
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